|
|
Post by philelverum on Aug 1, 2012 19:34:03 GMT -5
Hello.
This is Phil.
I promise I don't lurk here and this will be my only post. I will not read this website after posting this and you should feel free to write whatever (and I'm flattered at the attention!) I just didn't know where else to write such a thing:
In the last couple days a few people have said "Hey man Ocean Roar is great. I just listened to the whole thing." (which is nice) but it doesn't come out for like 5 weeks still, so I know there are leaks out there. 7e.p. put it out in Japan already and I knew it was likely that it would be leaked, but I hoped it would stay confined to Japan or something, but it seems to have been fully leaked now. Didn't someone post a link here? Someone else just emailed me to alert me of another semi-major-looking website that lists a few different downloads for it. I feel weird.
I guess I should have expected it. I'm not complaining. It's the first time I've really felt even slightly bummed. In the past I've just taken the stance that the free downloads are helping people decide if they want it or not, and hopefully I'm making something that's worth paying money to physically own, and that sketchy russian downloading is an unavoidable reality that is part of 2012 life. Also it seems like people who like my music (especially anyone who'd be reading this website) are generally thoughtful and don't lie to themselves too much about the ethics of illegal downloading. Most (all?) of us have downloaded stuff for free, and most of us have also payed for things. I think people who like my music tend to be more payers than not.
The reason I'm writing here is just to try and get some grasp on who it is that is doing the uploading. Who bought it from Japan, re-encoded and reuploaded it to the mediafires or wherever? What kind of person is that? Do they like my music? Is it someone on this website? Or is it some random teenager who doesn't actually care? Or maybe some freeware activist who is just constantly uploading and "sharing" whatever, regardless of content? I am perplexed. It doesn't match my image of the cool people who say hello to me at shows and stuff. Are you here?
To be clear, I'm not writing here to say "shame on you" or anything at all. Far from it. I'm just saying, if anyone knows who is actively trying to spread my stuff for free (uploading, etc.), please explain to them that I am literally a one-man operation working super hard to make this thing work and it's lame to do that. Tell them to think about the situation a little more.
Tim Heidecker was saying this thing around the time the Tim & Eric movie came out, arguing with young "punks" about why torrenting was hurtful to them, he was saying that if people don't show actual tangible monetary support to the things that they really like, then we will have to live in a world of only Smurfs movies. Meaning, the marginal elements in our culture, weird comedy, weird music, etc., are made with just scraps of money, and if those scraps dry up then only the big dumb behemoths will get made, chosen and funded by idiotic non-artists who are only adept at looking at the financial angle. It is a basic point, but it made me stop downloading cool people's stuff.
Sorry if it's creepy for me to post here.
I didn't want to tweet about this or anything
or post a thing on my normal website,
and I thought people reading here might be the right ones to think about this and perhaps tackle the culprit and have a few words with them.
Thanks for the attention.
see you
Phil
|
|
|
|
Post by shleby on Aug 2, 2012 0:44:15 GMT -5
I admit that I downloaded it, but I pre-ordered it before I even knew about the leak. People taking advantage of small labels are real losers... I don't think they actually understand the work that goes into it and are unaware that more won't come without funding.
Other than it leaking out of Japan I dunno how it's getting around.
|
|
|
|
Post by blueduck on Aug 2, 2012 20:45:02 GMT -5
I've always assumed that uploading of most new releases was mostly done by, what Phil titled them, "freeware activists". I have often wondered about who spends their days uploading stuff and what exactly is in it for them. I have DL'd lots of stuff and have also spent a fair fortune acquiring Lps and CDs. Its hard to be in love with music and not be able to afford to feed your appetite. No excuses though, I doesn't feel good to steal. Is it stealing though if, at one point, you owned the cd and now it's in your attic and it's easier to get it off mediafire then to crawl through the hole in the ceiling and through the spider webs to the boxes of unused CDs? I guess it kinda is right?
|
|
|
|
Post by cassette on Aug 2, 2012 21:41:56 GMT -5
yeah, this would most likely be the "freeware activists". I would imagine that their motivation for uploading would simply be that it hasn't yet been uploaded. It seems like some people make it their hobby to leak albums just because they can
|
|
|
|
Post by wolfticketsden on Aug 3, 2012 8:37:17 GMT -5
As for the motivation of the people uploading music/ software/ whatever online, it's very simple: money. All these things are uploaded to sites where a) you either pay a monthly fee for unlimited downloads and fewer ads --> money in the pockets of the site owners/uploaders, or b) you have to wait for x seconds, while you're shown ads, then have to fill in a captcha amongst popups with ads --> money in the pockets of the site owners/uploaders, because they're paid by the advertisers based on the time you've spent on the ad pages (doesn't matter that you close our eyes and don't see any of the ads). How do you think megaupload made its millions? But in order to get you on their website, watching the ads, they need to provide some content. And what easier way of doing that than stealing something someone made, be it a book, film, software or album? It's free, you upload it on your site, then sit back and watch the money roll in.
It's all in the numbers like with spam: one thinks, what kind of normal person with half a brain sees a message in his inbox saying 'increase penis size by 15 inches in one day with herbal pill!' and goes, 'ah cool, I'll click on THAT!' No one I know, no one you know probably, but the whole reason spam still exists is that it works: if you send out 25 million spam emails, somewhere, someone will click and open at least some of them.
Perhaps initially Ocean Roar was uploaded by an enthusiast who wanted to share it with other fans, or someone who wanted the glory of having done it first, but once it's been uploaded anywhere on the internet and there's an interest (and there IS interest), it will of course end up in all the usual places.
|
|
boat
Junior Member
Posts: 53
|
Post by boat on Aug 3, 2012 8:51:32 GMT -5
I haven't downloaded or heard the album.
I just wanted to say to Phil, that it is not creepy for you to post on here.
As for illegally downloading, I usually only do that for older stuff that is easy to find. last album i illegally downloaded was Cub -Box of Hair, I use to own the LP and couldn't remember if i liked it or not. there is a few good songs on it.
|
|
|
|
Post by shorton on Aug 4, 2012 10:39:17 GMT -5
I think the simple explanation is that there's an appetite to hear your music, Phil. There's a lot of anticipation surrounding new releases from artists whose music you enjoy (I'm sure you can relate to that), so when a link appears promising that album 3/4 weeks before it's actual release, it's pretty enticing, particularly when one considers all of those fans who are already enjoying it. Dare I say it's something resembling jealousy? Certainly, of my friends who listen to your music, many are the 'buying type', but that doesn't stop them from downloading leaks, for the simple reason that they want to be one of the first to hear what you're releasing. As for those doing the uploading, I have no idea whatsoever. 'Wolfticketsden' probably got it right when he suggested money was the main motivation. I'd be surprised if those doing it were actual, real fans of your music.
In truth, I owe my passion for your music to illegal downloads. Without them I might never have found your albums. Though personally, I could never completely enjoy those records until I could hold them in my hands, inspect the artwork, etc. Owning physical records makes listening to music much more of an 'event'. It's far too easy to trawl the internet whilst half-heartedly listening to a downloaded album through your computer speakers; making a cup of tea and sitting alone in your room with a record is a much more intimate (and therefore rewarding) experience, I guess I buy your records because I long for that experience, as opposed to listening to poor quality mp3's from a leak, and it's for that reason that I haven't downloaded the most recent leak (though I admit I did so for 'Clear Moon', which I had already pre-ordered).
|
|
sam
Junior Member
Posts: 91
|
Post by sam on Aug 4, 2012 19:57:28 GMT -5
There are a few sites that offer incentives for leaking anticipated albums I believe and it's a shame for the record to get out this way but from what I've heard the response has been nothing but positive. I for one will be looking forward to my next delivery from P.W. Elverum and Sun, the packaging description sounds awesome:
|
|
|
|
Post by soulbot on Aug 7, 2012 21:49:38 GMT -5
ocean roar was (acciedentally maybe?) put up on the japanese itunes store. this is the source of the leak made obvious by the fact that the files are .aac which is a format used almost exclusively by itunes. if a physically copy would have leaked there would have been .mp3 or .flac files instead. i don't know if it is suppose to be on there or it if is a mistake, but it is still up itunes.apple.com/jp/album/ocean-roar/id539378642.(according to the release page it had been on itunes for a almost a month before being reuploaded to the greater internet.)the album was first reuploaded from the itunes download to an invite only music torrent site called what.cd. what.cd claims to have the worlds largest music archive and is also notorious for often being the origin of album leaks.( i am going to try to avoid getting too deeply into how what.cd functions in this next part, but feel free to ask any questions you may have if i am unclear on some aspects). there is no monetary gain from uploading an album to the site. the only gain outside of sharing music you enjoy is in the form of bytes uploaded. it is important to have bytes uploaded because each user must maintain certain ratio of bytes uploaded to downloaded to stay on the site. upload bytes can be gained a few way on the site. 1. uploading albums that are not currently on the site (or albums already uploaded in formats that are not currently on the site (file type, vinyl/cd rip, imports with bonus tracks, etc.) 2.seeding torrent- seeding basically means allowing others to download the files of an album you already downloaded from your computer. 3.filling requests- users are allowed to "spend" their upload bytes on requests for albums that are not currently on the site. these requests can be added to by other users and end up being many gigabytes worth of upload to user who fills the request. this is the reason why so many albums first leak onto what.cd and the motive behind many uploads. if you can't tell by now i am a member of what.cd and i downloaded the album from there when it first leaked. when i saw your post i went back a looked at the user who uploaded it and here is what i found. i.imgur.com/6d03r.pngwhat you see here are posts the individual made on the what.cd site the first one being on the forum almost two weeks before ocean roar leaked and the second two are comments on the request page for ocean roar. i am assuming the reason why the user was asking for an upload initially instead of just downloading it himself is that itunes is region restricted. then after a few hours he comes back saying he bought it himself. (there is a loophole allowing for people outside of the specified region to download region locked albums.) this is hardly the sinister uncaring money hungry scum of the earth many of you assumed to be responsible. he is just a guy with a passion for mount eerie like the rest of us who stumbled upon the japanese itunes page. he didn't gain anything financially he hardly even gained anything on what.cd because .aac was not one of the accepted file types for the request that was put up for ocean roar so he only got upload bytes for the size of album and from seeding it. he just wanted to share something he discovered. if you were to order one of phil's albums and get it early you would probably have some of your friends over to listen to it. it is the same idea in this case. the only people who may profit off a leak like this are the filehosting sites that sell subscriptions and run adds and blog type sites that download recent leaks from sites such as what.cd and reupload them to filehosting sites with profit share. individuals who upload albums to mediafire get nothing(sidenote: mediafire is the most popular of all the direct download sites because of its ease of use and fast downloads showing that the majority of people are only uploading to share and not to monetize on others hard work). you might be asking now does what.cd make any money of this? and i honestly don't know. they don't run adds. they don't sell subscriptions. they do take donations from their users, but after you factor in the amount of money and man hours it takes to run a site with over 600,000 releases and 150,000 users i doubt they are swimming in piles of money (a la kim dotcom). i don't come to this site often because of how slow it is, so i don't really know the demographic, but it seems like a lot of you are from the oldschool approach of always buying physical copies when available and i agree with you to an extent. i own hundreds of records (nearly 60 microphones and mount eerie releases alone). i am however also of the internet age where there is a vast ocean of information and media available to those who know how to find it and i feel as though i am indebted to myself to listen/read/watch everything that is available to me that i find interest in. i owe my love for music to the internet. if it weren't for illegal downloads i would probably be one of those people who only download the occasional single from itunes and who would mostly just listen to top 40 type radio stations. would i rather own a physical copy of everything? of course, but that would be impossible the current system for obtaining music on the internet is extremely flawed and corrupt. a few people are capitalizing on artists hard work and the artist feels like they are getting screwed over. i feel as though it is partially the artist fault though. many artist put the bare minimum into their physical releases. phil himself has done an amazing job with making people want to pay for his albums. he puts so much emphasis and work into the physical goods he puts out all the way down to the packaging tape and beautiful stamps. he has also made almost everything he has released available on either itunes or bandcamp which is great for those rare releases like blood and little bird flies into a big black cloud. i would suggest however to put some albums up on bandcamp to take donations instead of set prices. if people are going to download it online it might as well be from you and you would be surprised at the number of people willing to donate a few dollars. in the end i think a leak can often actually be a positive thing for an album. it creates buzz and probably lead to more preorders. i mean clear moon leaked a few weeks early and phil had to do a second pressing of it almost instantly. i understand that phil probably feels cheated and discouraged by the leak. it must be frustrating to put so much work into something like this and not getting to put it out on your own terms. |
|
7EH7FC!~~_7.JPG)